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Oberweis Transcription
This page is written to illustrate the difficulties that may arise when trying to search through old church records, especially when looking at transcriptions instead of originals. This is not to say that transcriptions are bad - I primarily use transcriptions because that is what is available without going to Germany. Most church records are well-kept and invaluable to this wiki. The Oberweis church records, however, became so convoluted that I felt I had to share them. If nothing else, this is just to tell the Oberweis church recorders of 200 years ago that they didn't do a very good job - shame on you, 200 year old bureaucrats! The original data I am pulling this from can be found here. The records are written in Latin (the Catholic church only spoke Latin until relatively recently) - hence strange entries like Georgius instead of George; last names seem to be left relatively un-mangled. They span the era from 1744 - 1875. The columns are Date of Entry; Father's Last; Father's First; Mother's Last; Mother's First; Date of Marriage (if it is a marriage entry rather than a birth entry); Child's First; Location '''(always Oberweis in this record); and occasionally a final column for '''Child's Spouse. I don't really know if the entry date given is for the birth or the Christening - generally they match known birth dates, but back then the birth and the Christening would be that day or within a couple days (children died much more commonly back then). Example The following is part of the Ehr section in the records (there's alot of Ehrs in Oberweis in this time period). 0 0 UNK EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET 4-29-1850 NONE OBERWEIS 4 3 1851 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET ANNE OBERWEIS 10 21 1852 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET JOANNES OBERWEIS 1 7 1855 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET CATHERINE OBERWEIS 1 17 1857 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET PETER OBERWEIS 2 22 1859 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET NICOLAS OBERWEIS 2 18 1861 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET JACOBUS OBERWEIS 5 14 1863 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET MARIE OBERWEIS 5 10 1865 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET MAGDALENA OBERWEIS 12 17 1866 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET CATHERINE OBERWEIS 10 3 1868 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET MARGARET OBERWEIS 4 8 1872 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET FRANCISCUS OBERWEIS 11 5 1873 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET SIMON OBERWEIS 3 26 1821 EHR JOANNES BERSCHEID MARGARET JOANNES OBERWEIS 11 23 1825 EHR JOANNES NOESGES ANNE CATHERINE GEORGIUS OBERWEIS MARGARET TRAST 5 7 1827 EHR JOANNES NOESGES MARIE CATHERINE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 1 3 1829 EHR JOANNES NOESGES MARIE CATHERINE PETER OBERWEIS 0 0 UNK EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE 9-9-1845 NONE OBERWEIS 1 2 1847 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 3 10 1848 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE PETER OBERWEIS 12 11 1849 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 1 31 1851 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE NICOLAS OBERWEIS 11 7 1852 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE ANNE MARIE OBERWEIS 3 31 1856 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE GEORGIUS OBERWEIS 1 3 1829 EHR JOANNES1 NOESGES MARIE CATHERINE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 8 13 1831 EHR JOANNES2 DELLES SUSANNA 2-17-1830 JOANNES HUGO OBERWEIS 3 15 1833 EHR JOANNES2 DELLES SUSANNA PETER OBERWEIS 12 22 1835 EHR JOANNES2 DELLES SUSANNA MARIE OBERWEIS Problem 1: George Ehr and Margaret Frost The first problem I encountered is with George Ehr and Margaret (Frost) Ehr (see following list). Other than the fact that George is listed in Latin as Georgius; Margaret's last name is recorded as Trast - I don't know if this is a problem with the original record or with the transcription (the original would have been handwritten and hard to read - the transcriber is usually very good at writing endless lines of names correctly, however). For those who are worried about whether this really doesn't represent Margaret Frost, I have bolded the entry recording the birth of Georgius Ehr to Joannes Ehr and Anne Catherine Noesges that lists his wife Margaret Trast. Notice the new problem that Marie Catherine Nösges is listed as Anne Catherine, despite being properly recorded on the very next line. Also notice that Kate Ehr is recorded as Catherine (one of a multitude of ways her name has been spelled). This doesn't reflect a mistake as the records are in Latin and all Catherines are recorded as Catherine and not Katherine, Kate, Kathryn, Catherina, Katherina, Katrina, or anything else. Unfortunately, this is how her sister's name and her aunt's name are recorded as well (making it all just a little more confusing!). 0 0 UNK EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET 4-29-1850 NONE OBERWEIS 4 3 1851 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET ANNE OBERWEIS 10 21 1852 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET JOANNES OBERWEIS 1 7 1855 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET CATHERINE OBERWEIS 1 17 1857 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET PETER OBERWEIS 2 22 1859 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET NICOLAS OBERWEIS 2 18 1861 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET JACOBUS OBERWEIS 5 14 1863 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET MARIE OBERWEIS 5 10 1865 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET MAGDALENA OBERWEIS 12 17 1866 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET CATHERINE OBERWEIS 10 3 1868 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET MARGARET OBERWEIS 4 8 1872 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET FRANCISCUS OBERWEIS 11 5 1873 EHR GEORGIUS TRAST MARGARET SIMON OBERWEIS 3 26 1821 EHR JOANNES BERSCHEID MARGARET JOANNES OBERWEIS 11 23 1825 EHR JOANNES NOESGES ANNE CATHERINE GEORGIUS OBERWEIS MARGARET TRAST 5 7 1827 EHR JOANNES NOESGES MARIE CATHERINE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 1 3 1829 EHR JOANNES NOESGES MARIE CATHERINE PETER OBERWEIS I don't know who Joannes Ehr and Margaret Berscheid are - they are probably related somehow. Problem 2: The Catherine Conundrum One problem is that Marie Catherine Noesges died and John got remarried to Susanna Delles (as shown below - ignore Marie Schmitz). But that isn't the record's fault. They messed it up in a different way: John's first marriage is recorded in the first three lines below. He had three children, ending with Peter on January 3, 1829. Fine, except that the records slip another child in several lines later instead of with the rest for no discernible reason - and Hooray! another Catherine! Fine, two Catherine's in the same family, we're getting used to that - a little odd that they threw her down there... and her birthday is also January 3, 1829 (same as Peter - that's almost certainly correct...). I have no earthly idea if this is a new Catherine or the same as the last Catherine, and if she's new, whether she really is Peter's twin. At this point I don't care. Because this is clearly making so much sense already, the records decide to call John "Joannes1" to distinguish him from himself in the second marriage - Joannes2 (married to Susanna Delles). And to top it all off, he named a second child "Peter" - but at least his next daughter wasn't named Catherine! 11 23 1825 EHR JOANNES NOESGES ANNE CATHERINE GEORGIUS OBERWEIS MARGARET TRAST 5 7 1827 EHR JOANNES NOESGES MARIE CATHERINE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 1 3 1829 EHR JOANNES NOESGES MARIE CATHERINE PETER OBERWEIS 0 0 UNK EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE 9-9-1845 NONE OBERWEIS 1 2 1847 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 3 10 1848 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE PETER OBERWEIS 12 11 1849 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 1 31 1851 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE NICOLAS OBERWEIS 11 7 1852 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE ANNE MARIE OBERWEIS 3 31 1856 EHR JOANNES SCHMITZ MARIE GEORGIUS OBERWEIS 1 3 1829 EHR JOANNES1 NOESGES MARIE CATHERINE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 8 13 1831 EHR JOANNES2 DELLES SUSANNA 2-17-1830 JOANNES HUGO OBERWEIS 3 15 1833 EHR JOANNES2 DELLES SUSANNA PETER OBERWEIS 12 22 1835 EHR JOANNES2 DELLES SUSANNA MARIE OBERWEIS I don't know who Joannes Ehr and Marie Schmitz are - they are probably related somehow. And they were nice enough to have two more Catherines and a Peter! Problem 3: To Name a Nösges The following list is the entire "N" section representing everyone with a last name starting with an N who either got married or had a baby in Oberweis from 1744 - 1875. I know from a separate record that Marie Catherine Nösges was born to Johan Nösges and Margaret Thick on May 12, 1796 in Oberweis - and should therefore be in this record. Find her. Notice, the last entry is a Catherine Nusges (close enough for me!), born to an Unknown Nusges and a Margaret Schmitz (perhaps not close enough) on December 5, 1796. Despite being the wrong name, the wrong date, and the wrong parents, I think this may be the correct entry. *First, it's not uncommon that a Marie Catherine would get listed as just Catherine - that explains the name. *Second, Margaret Thick's mother's maiden name was Margaret Schmitz. So they could have accidentally put down the wrong Margaret or they mistakenly used her mother's maiden name (or maybe there was some weird naming going on in Germany in the 18th Century). That explains the name. *Third, the distance between May 12, 1796 and December 5, 1796 isn't that great; it's the difference between 5/12/1796 and 12/5/1796. It's possible that the other record read 12/5 in the European way as May 12th instead of the American way of December 5th. It is also possible that the original record (or the transcript) contains a typo. So that explains the date. So just when we are getting comfortable accepting a completely incorrect entry as a correct one, we glance up one line and notice the entry where a Catherine Noesges (a correct variation) was born May 12th (a correct date), 1826 (wrong year, but suspiciously only two numbers wrong - misread?) was born to Susanna Noesges and Susanna Noesges (Ok, that's probably a mistake!). The year is wrong and the parents are wrong, but the year isn't that wrong and the parents are clearly not recorded properly anyway. At any rate, that's fewer mistakes than the last entry... No, no, no, I'm not doing this again. I'm taking the last entry. I'm done with Catherine. I hate Oberweis. 8 23 1774 MULLER THEODORE THIL EVE MATTHIAS OBERWEIS 7 4 1809 NESIUS JOANNES SCHMITZ MARGARET HUBERTUS OBERWEIS 5 20 1812 NESIUS JOANNES TOEP MARGARET JOANNES OBERWEIS 6 20 1873 NEUMAN JOANNES FASEN MARIE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 6 18 1843 NIEDERKORN NICOLAS PROBST ANNE MARIE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 1 4 1845 NOESGES JACOBUS DIMMER ANNE MARIE MARGARET OBERWEIS 6 5 1848 NOESGES JACOBUS DIMMER ANNE MARIE ELIZABETH OBERWEIS 1 6 1851 NOESGES JACOBUS DIMMER ANNE MARIE SIMON OBERWEIS 5 12 1826 NOESGES SUSANNA NOESGES SUSANNA MATTHIAS OBERWEIS 5 12 1826 NOESGES SUSANNA NOESGES SUSANNA CATHERINE OBERWEIS 12 5 1796 NUSGES UNK SCHMITZ MARGARET CATHERINE OBERWEIS Wait! We're not done with Problem 3! If we do accept the Susanna Noesges entry for Catherine, that gives her a brother (also born to Susanna Noesges and Susanna Noesges - two immaculate conceptions?!). The record shows a Matthias Noesges was born... wait for it... 5/12/1826!!! I HATE OBERWEIS! That's the same birthday as Catherine. So is that correct? Which is the mistake? Is this even the right person? At this point I have no clue whatsoever. But wait, there's more! Move up to the top of the list and you will see a couple of listings for a Joannes Nesius - one to Margaret Schmitz (we've seen her before!) and one to Margaret Toep. Recall that these are written in Latin, so Joannes is Johan. That being said, Nesius is very close to Nescius - a Latin form of "Unknown". Is this basically the Latin for "Johan Unknown"? If so, then that could be Johan Nösges and we already decided that Margaret Schmitz could be his wife, Margaret Thick. I have no idea what "Toep" would be, but that would be too much of a coincidence to think that those two lines weren't related. If these are the same people as Marie Catherine's parents, then she has two brothers: Hubert and Johan. Then again Joannes Nesius and Margaret Schmitz, by the same logic, could be Johann Thicks and Margaret Schmitz, except that the dates match much more closely with Marie Catherine's parents. At this point I have no idea if those two lines are related to us or not (and are therefore not included in the Wiki). All I know is that I hate Oberweis. 8 23 1774 MULLER THEODORE THIL EVE MATTHIAS OBERWEIS 7 4 1809 NESIUS JOANNES SCHMITZ MARGARET HUBERTUS OBERWEIS 5 20 1812 NESIUS JOANNES TOEP MARGARET JOANNES OBERWEIS 6 20 1873 NEUMAN JOANNES FASEN MARIE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 6 18 1843 NIEDERKORN NICOLAS PROBST ANNE MARIE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 1 4 1845 NOESGES JACOBUS DIMMER ANNE MARIE MARGARET OBERWEIS 6 5 1848 NOESGES JACOBUS DIMMER ANNE MARIE ELIZABETH OBERWEIS 1 6 1851 NOESGES JACOBUS DIMMER ANNE MARIE SIMON OBERWEIS 5 12 1826 NOESGES SUSANNA NOESGES SUSANNA MATTHIAS OBERWEIS 5 12 1826 NOESGES SUSANNA NOESGES SUSANNA CATHERINE OBERWEIS 12 5 1796 NUSGES UNK SCHMITZ MARGARET CATHERINE OBERWEIS Problem 4: Thick as Pea Soup Yes, these titles are terrible. Since I mentioned Johann Thicks and Margaretha (Schmitz) Thicks in that last problem, that brings up more problems. These, unfortunately are not an Oberweis problem, but are a much wider problem. They are just illustrated nicely in the following excerpt from the Oberweis record. *First, why do we use numbers for months and days?! Anne Thieckes is recorded as having been born on 2/9/1764. Knowing this record, I know that is February 9, 1764. However, I have seen it in various places as either 2/9/1764 or 9/2/1764 and meaning, variously, February 9, 1764 and September 2, 1764. One of the two is incorrect. Which? At this point, as crazy as it probably sounds now, I'm going to trust the Oberweis record and go with February 9th. But lesson learned: don't use numbers for months! *The second problem isn't with the records but with our uncreative ancestors. Look at that list of daughters: Anne, Anne Catherine, Catherine, Marie Catherine, and Anne Marie! Come on people, pick a different name once in a while! *Again the third problem isn't with the record, per se, but with recording German names in the 1700's before everybody knew how to spell. Margaret Thick's name has been spelled Thick, Thicks, Thieckes, Thiecks, Thiex, Thüx, or Thücks and her husband's name has been Nösges, Noesges, Nuesges, Nueges, Nossges, or Nusges. Not counting the different ways to spell Margaret (Margret, Margaret, Margaretha, etc.) or Johan (Joannes, Jean, Johann, Johan, John, Johannes, etc.) that gives 42 different combinations to try to look up when finding those two people! At least Oberweis settled with Thieckes. 6 1 1761 THIECKES JOANNES SCHMITZ MARGARET 11-13-1758 ANNE CATHERINE OBERWEIS 1 21 1763 THIECKES JOANNES SCHMITZ MARGARET MATTHIAS OBERWEIS 2 9 1764 THIECKES JOANNES SCHMITZ MARGARET ANNE OBERWEIS 12 4 1766 THIECKES JOANNES SCHMITZ MARGARET ANNE MARIE OBERWEIS 12 18 1769 THIECKES JOANNES SCHMITZ MARGARET MARGARET OBERWEIS 11 13 1771 THIECKES JOANNES SCHMITZ MARGARET MARIE CATHERINEOBERWEIS 11 5 1772 THIECKES JOANNES SCHMITZ MARGARET MARCUS OBERWEIS 2 4 1774 THIECKES JOANNES SCHMITZ MARGARET CATHERINE OBERWEIS 6 28 1776 THIECKES JOANNES SCHMITZ MARGARET PAULUS OBERWEIS